#10 If AI Does the Thinking, What's Left for You? with Cornelia Kawann
Hello, unconventional founders, and welcome to The Founders Truth, a conversation with Carlo Mahfouz and guests. Episode 10 continues with Doctor. Cornelia Kawann, founder of Energion and personal energy strategist, as we explore why space is the prerequisite for every transformation, the role of thinking in the age of AI, and what it takes to deploy an imperfect idea.
Cornelia Kawann:Wow, I love this aspect of sharing energy, yes, really like it, and I like your three points. I just wanted to ask you about one thing that I see in a way is for many very important, and this is appreciation. And in a way, also in combination, being seen and acknowledged and appreciated. So what do you think about this?
Carlo Mahfouz:I think appreciation and acknowledgement and validation is really important. I think it does give a certain level of comfort for sure. I do believe though, as well, a reliance on it or a dependency on it is harmful on the long term too. I think it's really an interesting thing. On the short term, it kind of gives you this comfort, the sense of security, because you're seen, someone has recognized and seen some of your contribution or your presence, all of that.
Carlo Mahfouz:On the long term, if you start seeking that as an indicator for trust, then it becomes detrimental because then the dependency start seek and I think we undermine our unconscious and our brain and how try to solve problems. And when it it feels there's something good, it, like, tries to pursue it, whether, you know, sometimes we notice it or not. And I think that's the danger. I don't think there is you know, I don't think appreciation is great, and I think it's a really important things to have. I think the only caveat there that I feel like sometimes end up becoming the whole solution is the dependency you have.
Carlo Mahfouz:And then you're always seeking validation and then you're no longer able to trust or etcetera, if that doesn't exist. And not everyone is able to actually communicate appreciations the same way. I think communication is really key here as well. Some people communicate it through actions, some people communicate it through words, some people communicate it like different ways. And you might not always notice that they are communicating it because you're probably paying attention to the words.
Carlo Mahfouz:You're not paying attention to the action, or you're not paying attention to the support. And all of these dimensions, then it becomes a little bit more nuanced than it's just one way of doing things.
Cornelia Kawann:Yes, I see your point, and I think it's a very valid point to say. Yeah, if it's really the right thing to do or to say, and it feels true, yeah, then I think then it's definitely important, but it shouldn't be required, or you shouldn't feel that you're obliged to do it. I see. Yeah, that's a very good point. For me, it's just, I always like to, in a way, give direct feedback.
Cornelia Kawann:So if I like things, or if I don't like things, I always try to do it right afterwards, or after meeting, or when something really went excellent, or I thought that there is some room for improvement. So because I think then, yeah, it's fresh and raw and direct.
Carlo Mahfouz:I think that's perfect, honestly. And I think in that context, is the best way, right? It is in that instance, that is in that moment, however it is, as you said, raw and vulnerable and unpolished or whatever that looks like. Often when it comes from that, it comes a even when if it's you know, room for improvement or criticism, comes with a, like, an airy feeling that people can relate to. And then that's why I said, well, at least that's how I describe it is that this is a certain level of light hardness to it, not necessarily as a judgment or criticism, but as a way of a passion for support or passion to help, or like kind of taking it as if it's yours and then taking it forward.
Cornelia Kawann:And it was just a story came up, you know, because one of our new team members, you know, and we had a meeting and a presentation, and afterwards I went into his office and told him that I really liked the presentation, whatever. And then we talked a little bit, and then I wanted to leave the office, and then he asked me, Is there anything I can do for you? And I said, No, why? And then he asked me, Did you just come for, you know, over to tell me? And then I said, Yes, because he thought I'm telling him something before, and then I want something, right?
Carlo Mahfouz:Yeah, that's a transaction.
Cornelia Kawann:So it was a surprise for him.
Carlo Mahfouz:Well, I think that's part of the problem is that we've reduced almost all of these relationships to transactional ones, Right? And I think that's the danger is when it's already assumed that it's been given to take something back almost, not understanding that by giving something already has been shared, and then that's plenty almost. So there is no need for a transaction to happen to validate it even further.
Cornelia Kawann:Yeah. It's just about receiving. It's also about just receiving a compliment or just take it and enjoy it and think, Yeah, it's true, and I deserve it. I think it's also a process to, yeah, get into that.
Carlo Mahfouz:To that, at least even personally, think receiving compliments is such a hard thing as well for a lot of people at this point. I mean, I've experienced it myself multiple times in both how you respond, but at the same time, how do you capture it? Like the more close you are, the harder it is for you to actually kind of take it in. You almost reject it to certain extremes in some cases rather than being able to be open to it. And such a sad reality that that is when that happens in a way.
Carlo Mahfouz:And then a lot of room for that change, hopefully, for many people as they recognize that in themselves.
Cornelia Kawann:Yeah. I spoke with a colleague in the corporate world, and then she told me that she has two CEOs. And she told me, and I was really kind of, wow, that's incredible. And she told me, you know, if there's a male and a female CEO, and if she gets like, yeah, appreciation or thank you from the female CEO, she said, If you get it from the male CEO, it has more worth for her. And that was so incredible.
Cornelia Kawann:You know, the first thing, I was so impressed that she reflected on it, that she even noticed. And on the other side, yeah, it's not only receiving something, it still depends from whom you're receiving. Absolutely.
Carlo Mahfouz:But it has
Cornelia Kawann:a different value.
Carlo Mahfouz:I think this is the interesting part of like how much there is things that are influencing the weight of what we receive or how we operate that we don't necessarily always pay attention to. Not all things are equal by no means. And I think the worst part is that we believe that we are beyond the influence. I think this is the ego part of almost anyone, like I am beyond influence. Yet everyone wants to influence everyone else, but when it comes to them, they don't want to be influenced.
Carlo Mahfouz:They're like, no, leave me alone. Like, I'm beyond influence. I'm like in control of everything. But that's such a sad thing too, because imagine that you cannot be influenced. And the reality is you're influenced all the time.
Carlo Mahfouz:You're influenced by the room, by the temperature, by the person, by the you're influenced regardless whether you like it or not, that's the truth. But I think even the arrogance of assuming that you cannot be influenced, but you don't understand how bad that could be. Like, imagine you cannot be influenced by anything else. What does that mean? You're like kind of a rigid box that never changes or evolves or anything else.
Carlo Mahfouz:I think that's a very, very sad reality. If anything, I think that's the kind of the recipe for depression and kind of burnout and everything else almost.
Cornelia Kawann:Yeah, but I think what surprises us, or we don't want to have these subtle influences, which we don't notice, right? And of course, sometimes they're so direct into your face that you know, okay, now this is And then you kind of take a step back. But with all these subtle influences, you just don't even think, just creep into your energy and into your system, and there they are, and you're not even aware of them. Okay, so yeah, coming to your third book, right? Okay.
Cornelia Kawann:It's The Culture of Why, and The Rise of AI. Wow, it even rhymes. So very well done, the title.
Carlo Mahfouz:Thank you.
Cornelia Kawann:And, yeah, AI is all over the place, right? And I noticed that there are many people, there is this fear of the unknown, we don't know what's gonna change, but it will have an impact on our culture, on ourselves and humanity. And in a way, what I think is, you know, the last century, in a way, we were so focused on thinking. So our mind was so dominant in a way. And now in a way, thinking is so cheap with AI, right?
Cornelia Kawann:You know, it's thinking for us, yeah. And so, for me, it's the question, you know, to you, if it's not thinking that is so important for humanity, what else? What is it?
Carlo Mahfouz:My God, so much more. Like really so much more there is. I think we've put thinking on a pedestal for so long. I agree with you 100% thinking that that's all we are almost. And we've ignored so much else.
Carlo Mahfouz:And I think only now in this kind of pushback or kind of sense of urgency that AI has created, we're starting to realize more of the I think we've come close to some ideas. Like we start talking about emotional intelligence, start talking about intuition, we start talking about things which we don't have exact words for as concrete as thinking. But the thing is, I think thinking as well, we didn't have concrete words for as well, because before that used to be probably dexterity and strength. When you were fighting for your life to survive, all you could think of as strength, probably, you would not necessarily worry too much about thinking and intellectual capabilities. And I think this kind of evolution that we're playing against, I think is three d key.
Carlo Mahfouz:And I think now we're starting to realize probably what is more valuable is the authentic connections. What we label, we put on them, how we describe them energy or intuition, or I'm sure we will come up with some word at some point and we would label it like, because we're very good at the labeling. I mean, that will be fine. But I think that's the opportunity because if anything today, I think our society is a little bit falling apart because of the lack of connection and building this connection. Because some of these things are not about intellect and not about logic.
Carlo Mahfouz:They're about more the messy, almost middle of the relationship between each other. And I think that's impressive. And I think that's what we're going to see more of. That's what is going to be highlighted. I don't know what to call it.
Carlo Mahfouz:We can call it energy if we want. I think we can call it awareness. We can call it aliveness even, like different things. But I think that's the new component. At least in my third book, I talk about aliveness.
Carlo Mahfouz:That's the core component. I think that is the real time connections and dynamic that's built between us humans, or if anything that shape us as humans, which I would say will be more of the attention, be more of where we will shift towards as a lot of the thinking kind of hopefully start more honestly being delegated.
Cornelia Kawann:But what do you suggest, what can we do now to shift faster in this direction?
Carlo Mahfouz:I believe to first move, the shift is already happening. I don't think that shift is not happening. I believe as well. So for example, like now a lot of people are using AI for therapy They're using it as a coach or asking it question or etcetera. But it's interesting what it's creating.
Carlo Mahfouz:So for some, it's creating the opposite relation and creating more dependency on the intellectual type of thinking because that's where the security and safety. But for some, it's creating the complete opposite, which is, okay, there is this relationship of an unknown, of like a gap, of an ambiguous almost like thing that I cannot really touch and feel, but I can find extremely valuable in how I success and happiness and all of that. And I think that's one way, like, I mean, use the technology. I'm not saying use the technology being wary of what is happening, not necessarily being completely married again and being dependent on the answers it gives and etcetera, but more so as a research partner, as a thinking partner in that sense, to clear up and create the bandwidth for you to not be in your thoughts. How many people today live 90% of their time in their thoughts?
Carlo Mahfouz:Like they're stuck in their thinking. And actually they use social media or other ways to distract themselves because they aren't stuck in your thinking. So, okay, great. You no longer have to have that burden. We have a solution for that.
Carlo Mahfouz:Move that out of you. Move it in the writing, move it in helping you to write your thoughts, put one note and let it continue the rest, read it through. Slowly create that space. Because once you have that bandwidth, then you are able to I don't think anyone can change or move if they don't have space and bandwidth. And I think that's why it's important.
Carlo Mahfouz:If I've learned anything from organizational change and across the board with organizations or people, foundation to anything to move or shift is space. If you don't have that, if you're in, let's say, back to back meetings and operation all day long, you literally have no space to do anything else. No matter how much intellectually ually you say, I want to change, or I want to adopt this technology, or I want to do this, or I want to innovate, or I want to whatever. So I think that's really the opportunity here.
Cornelia Kawann:Yeah, fully agree. And space is definitely, I like that word, yeah. I will integrate it in my vocabulary for 2026.
Carlo Mahfouz:Nice, awesome. That's really cool.
Cornelia Kawann:Hey, Carlo, is there one question you want to ask me?
Carlo Mahfouz:Yes. Oh my God. I can ask you many questions. One of the questions I want you to ask, I, you know, I think from where you sit today and what you've seen in different organizations people and even in society as a whole and your work across more like global initiatives, I would say. I do believe there is a shift that's happening today in this conversation between, as you said, individual and team, but between like the nationalism or the globalization, between the person or the entity, the country, etcetera, and the global as a whole.
Carlo Mahfouz:And from an energy point of view and etcetera, how do you see its possibility to bridge that gap? How is it possible to move or to move across these, I would say, constructs of thought and get them closer.
Cornelia Kawann:Maybe I didn't understand the question, but do you want to get closer?
Carlo Mahfouz:So how do we become like a global citizen while not necessarily getting rid of your identity? Like how does identity, for example, is not, you have your culture, your identity, your roots, but as well you're part of the global system, which technology has enabled, you don't have no choice almost in the matter. Like how can you be both without being a trade off? Because these days, the conversation, the dialogue always feels like it's being a trade off.
Cornelia Kawann:Me, it's not a trade off.
Carlo Mahfouz:Okay.
Cornelia Kawann:And I think you can't get rid I don't know what you understand with identity. But I think, you know, when you're born, you're born in this culture, in this family, and in a way you're born into this energy where you're there. And of course, you can move out from there and go to different countries, and it's less strong, But still, it's your tribe, it's your energy. And from my point of view, there is a reason why you're there. And I think, for me, it's not better to get rid of something, but more to understand how can you, I don't know, shift it, or I don't like the word optimizing, but in a way, improve it, so you leave something better behind.
Carlo Mahfouz:Okay.
Cornelia Kawann:For yourself, for your family, for your tribe, for your country, in a way. And I think, yeah, with the quantum field energetically, you're connected with anybody, whoever the person is, in a way. So, yeah, it's easier to get closer to the energies of other countries and to feel how things are there. But then it's always the question, you know, what do you do information? It's the same with, I think, information or knowing things, it's not the importance anymore.
Cornelia Kawann:For me, it's more about then, okay, you have this information, but what do you do? It's more about implementing now. Think we are leaving the era of information moving into implementation. And the better you are in taking information and then applying it and changing and shifting, the more probably, yeah, it's better, no, no, it's not better, you feel more joy in that.
Carlo Mahfouz:I really like that actually, that dimension of, we're moving from the collection of data and knowing to actually the implementation and execution, which to me is like basically living reality rather than like kind of just collecting information about it. And I think there is a directness to it, which I think is fascinating and then there's really opportunity here for people. But how does that translation goes? I think it's gonna be the hard shift now, how we'll start translating all of that into things that can work for us. And as you said, like kind of bring us joy and then how we connect with each other, how we work, how we live as a whole.
Cornelia Kawann:Yeah. So Carlo, thank you so much. I'm taking a lot of this exchange really well. I'm looking so much forward to reading then the other two books when they are ready. And I think this exchange now really reminds me, you also spoke about the reality and the real leadership, And it's, as you said, staying in the present, asking questions and building cultures of trust, not only in your team, but I think in general, that's something that will be more and more important.
Cornelia Kawann:And so, yeah, if you're watching this video now, then maybe you can comment below what are the questions you would ask, Carlo. And I have one last question to you, Yes. And so, if somebody you know was listening to this conversation, gets really inspired by the ideas of your books. His part, we have been speaking about applying all these things and bring them into reality. So what would you recommend to this listening person if this person wants to do something this week?
Cornelia Kawann:What should that be?
Carlo Mahfouz:Oh my God. Amazing question. If they wanna do something this week, I would say, I'm gonna combine a lot of the things that I said today into one that they can actually achieve now. Take a stream of thought, put it in your favorite AI or whatever, like anything. Well, I would say two paths.
Carlo Mahfouz:If you feel comfortable, either one. Take that stream of thought and write it and then publish it. Don't write it and keep it for you. Take it and publish it on LinkedIn, on Substack, on Medium. I don't care.
Carlo Mahfouz:Take it and publish it. Put it out there. You find that difficult writing yourself, put few ideas and let the AI complete the writing for it and do some light editing and then publish it. And do it today within like an hour or two, don't wait. And the reason I think this is a great exercise of an implementation, this combines a lot of this, putting yourself out there, getting out of your thinking, getting the thoughts out, but not even getting them out just for you to read them, getting them out for others to read, even if no one reads them.
Carlo Mahfouz:Like even if you don't have a platform, etcetera, just putting them out. And you're going to go through a range of experiences just by doing that, both from a vulnerability perspective, from self doubt, from a lot of things that are holding you back, but you're going to really feel the difference when that happened. And if you can do it on a more frequent basis, even the better. So that's it. It's that simple.
Cornelia Kawann:I love it. I really love it. That's an amazing thing. And yeah, it's challenging or can be challenging, but I think we can all do it, right?
Carlo Mahfouz:Yeah. AI is there to help you. So don't worry. I'm not saying use whatever you need. Just the fact that you do it is the is the important part.
Cornelia Kawann:Exactly. And it it definitely, definitely doesn't be need to be perfect.
Carlo Mahfouz:Yeah, no, absolutely not. Don't, like, think about it because the perfection is gonna kick in. I can guarantee you. That's something you can observe to 100%.
Cornelia Kawann:Yes. So that's why I'm mentioning it.
Carlo Mahfouz:Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. I'm glad you did because I think, like, sometimes knowing ahead of time what you're going to encounter is really it's really helpful because then you're like, oh, okay. I'm not alone.
Carlo Mahfouz:Yeah. You're not alone. Like, definitely, even me, that happens to me, and I write almost every day.
Cornelia Kawann:So, yeah, we just write it, have a short look, and then we're brave enough, put it on social media, and close our eyes, and press the send or submit button.
Carlo Mahfouz:Yeah. 100%. That's just it.
Cornelia Kawann:And then you open your eyes and then you notice, oh, wow, the world is still there, right? It didn't break down.
Carlo Mahfouz:No. Exactly. And probably That's
Cornelia Kawann:something terrible happened. So
Carlo Mahfouz:And you'd be surprised someone will say, I know exactly what you feel and I resonate with you. Or like, it would really like the possibility of being surprised is now you created the possibility. Like in that just simple act, you create a possibility.
Cornelia Kawann:Wow, love it. Oh, Carlo, I have tons of still tons of questions I could ask you and wish you really all the best with writing and finishing your books. Yeah, as you can see, people are already waiting out there to read your thoughts and ideas on reality and how to put them or make them happening. So I really appreciate your time, really enjoyed it. And, yeah, talk to you soon, and energy on.
Carlo Mahfouz:Absolutely. Thank you so much, Cornelia. I love it. Energy on. Definitely the energy was on across the board, so I really appreciate the dialogue and what you brought into this conversation.
Carlo Mahfouz:Thank you so much for listening to The Founders Truth, a space for opening your mind to new possibilities and thinking. One question to reflect on is, what would you do differently this week if you trusted that aliveness, not intellect, was your most valuable asset?
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